Need Help Making Mold

[AverageJoe]

I have a part that I need to make a mold out of. I have no experience whatsoever in doing this. It is my goal to find someone to come here and make a mold off an existing plug. If anybody knows anyone who does this or who would be willing to take on this project, please let me know. I would of course compensate this person properly.

Thanks and have a great day.

[the1much]

what part? how big of a project?
welcome to the forum ;)

[AverageJoe]

I have a top for a pontoon boat that I am trying to build. It would take the place of a alum enclosure. The plug is pretty much finished, that much I know how to do, but the mold manuf I have no clue about.

[the1much]

gel ( tooling gel) the part,,,then lay-up your glass on that,,make it at least 3 times thicker then ya piece,,make sure you have plenty of "framing" around it,,( also glass in a hook or 2 to make it easy to pick up and move around,,,,,remember that the mold is what your money is made from,, so it needs to be built to last.,,after its made,,you'll have to wet sand or fill any "bad" spots,,then its time to think about ya release agent.
have you used the "search" option for "making molds"?,,, theres gotta be a few hundred threads on it,,hehe ;)

[AverageJoe]

Care to come do it?

[the1much]

hehe,,,,, you couldnt afford me,,:)
plus im pretty s-l-o-w ,,hehe ;)

[AverageJoe]

Like you said, the mold is where the money is. I am seriously looking for someone to come build this mold the right way. All I would do is goof it up so there is no use even going down that path. I also understand this won't be a cheap project. I would be very willing to discuss $$$ with anyone with the experience and time to take on this project. I don't know what kind of time frame would be involved, but would make it worth someones while.

[the1much]

according to how bad the plug is,,how readily the glass resin,tooling gel,and lumber are,,,it should only take a little more then a week,,,,it would take me 2 weeks,,maybe a few days more.,, someone that can move round better then me might ( according to their experience) should be a fast job. another thing is tools,,,,,do you have the guns and all for the job,, or do they need to bring their own ( which if traveling by plane SUKS) ,, accommodation's? beer? hehe ;)
im just trying to get ya the ?'s whoever is interested is gonna ask,,,,( well they should) hehe :D;)

[tinhorn]

There's gotta be a few fiberglass shops not too far away. Be careful about some dude willing to do the work in his off-hours, unless he comes with a good reference from his boss (or his crew). Out of every ten guys who say they can build molds, 9-3/4 are full of crap because they think there's nothing to it.

You could read a book and learn the steps to follow under ideal conditions (book learnin'), but what separates the men from the boys is knowing all 150 things that can go wrong and how to prevent, sidestep, correct, accommodate, or properly patch them (shop smarts). (You can't really repair a mold - you can only patch it.) Find a shop with a good rep.

[the1much]

um Tin,,,, i think you messed your numbers up,,,,,,,only 150?
i musta been doing it wrong,,hehe :D

[AverageJoe]

I have run in to way to many people around here who say they can do it "no problem" but have no type of work to show as an example. That is why I came here, in hopes of finding someone with experience or at least someone who could refer me to that person. If anyone has any ideas,,,,I would greatly appreciate it.

As far as the status of the plug,,,,it is sanded to 600 at this point.

[tinhorn]

Yeah, when you've built or modified as many molds as I have, you can reduce the number of potential screwups to around 150. :)

I did a Google search on "fiberglass missouri" and on the first page of the search results I saw three shops that appear worthy of interviewing. You'll just have to work the phones a bit and maybe take a trip to check out their work.

[the1much]

600 grit??,,,thats too many steps,,,im lazy,,hehe,,,should "break down" the bulk with 320,,then 2500 to finish it,,and need to make sure you fold the paper the right way so your not making small scratches with the corners of the paper.

[tinhorn]

2500? Man, we're working with gelcoat here, not fancy-schmancy paint. I use 180, 320, 400, and then 600, followed by polishing compound until it looks like a mirror. (Small scratches with sandpaper corners - just 149 potential screwups to go.)

[the1much]

the better the finish on the plug,, the less more labor intensive work on the female mold. ,,, least thats how i was taught,,,,,once we did all the work for the first time on the mold,,all we did was wash and put release agent on every time,,and could pull out and have almost null for fairing "the boat".
maybe they just liked "knowing" where i was all the time,,,,hehe :D;)

[AverageJoe]

Lets just say for "kick's" that I suppy all materials, lodging, food & beverage,,,,,,,,,,what would you charge in labor to come do this project.

[the1much]

hehe,,,,,i should give ya my "painting" wages ,,hehe,,,but i would OF charged about 2500 ,,, but that would be just for building the mold,,,to set it up for production the minute i say,,"in 24hrs its time to put it to work",, would be around 5 grand.,,,,and thats my " im old and crippled and slow" price, :D

[SamSam]

You need to say what size it is and supply some pictures to show how complex it is and what condition the plug is. Do you just want to make a mold and 1 top or are you going to make a bunch of tops?

[the1much]

and to add,,,,,you need someone that can do the work,,,but doesnt actually realize how much $ "his" work is going to make,,or has the "potential to make,,,,hehe :D

[the1much]

cant be very big,,,, is only a pontoon top,,hehe :D

[AverageJoe]

It's not really all that big but when you figure 3 and a half sides and a top,,,,it's not exactly a small amount of space. I am a little shy about sending out pics of what this looks like. It has not been through the patent process yet and whoever does the work will have to sign a non-compete of course.

I am wanting to be around $3000 on total labor for a production ready mold. I will supply all materials needed.

[the1much]

is the person your gonna hire gonna be working alone? ,, if so,, they betta be fast hehe,, or its gonna be alot of extra work.

[AverageJoe]

No, there will be plenty of help to roll glass.

[overtimejunkie]

just some dimensions would help, the 3,000 for labor would be doable

[AverageJoe]

It is approx 196 sq feet of space. Three sections of 7 x 7 plus roof. I would supply all materials and the labor to help roll glass under whomevers supervision. I will also provide a hotel, meals, drink, and whatever else necessary to get the job done,,,,,,,within reason of course.

[overtimejunkie]

do you have a chop or gel gun available? where in missouri?

[AverageJoe]

I do have a chop gun and a gel gun available. I live in West Plains, Missouri,,,,south central part of the state.

[overtimejunkie]

what brand guns do you have? glaskraft-MVP? internal or external mix? how many parts are you expecting to make from this mold set?

[the1much]

shouldnt all molds ( except for the 1 time users) be built for an unlimited number of uses?
im not being an idiot,,, its just that i've never seen that asked before ,, does it matter?
and nother nosey ?,,,, the chop gun is just for the first layer right?

[AverageJoe]

To be honest I don't know. I know the chopper is a glasscraft. The gel,,,I have no idea but i can find out. If it is not something that will do a quality job then I'll buy what we need. As far as the mold. I want to be able to make at least 1000 parts so it needs to be a high quality mold.

[SamSam]

As far as the status of the plug,,,,it is sanded to 600 at this point.

First off you've got to finish the plug. However you want the finished product to look like is what you want the plug to look like. It's got to have an impervious surface and be buffed to a shine and ready to take wax before it can be molded.

Depending on it's shape, you usually have to have 2 to 10 degrees draft to it so the finished part can easily pull free of the mold and the mold can come off the plug. If you have to make a multiple piece mold, it becomes more expensive.

!,000 parts off a mold is wishful thinking. Keep your plug for awhile, you might ruin a mold and need another or you might want multiple molds for more production. You can always make a mold off a part, but it works best off a plug.

Once you've filed for a patent and have 'patent pending' status, you're good to go, it doesn't matter who sees anything. You also have to have around $300,000+ to defend it against any serious challenges. And just because the Patent Office grants you a patent does not in any way mean the patent is valid.

[Knut Sand]

gel ( tooling gel) the part,,,then lay-up your glass on that,,

EHhhh...Jim.... Not me trying to tell an ol fox something here..... But I clearly recall prior to this.... Water grinding, smoother, and smoother paper, rubbing, til the shoulders are acin', then wax, wax, wax, then some other film stuff, which i do not recall the name of....:P

Ok, NOW i see/ saw that that was mentioned further down, zårryzårry.... But what about a flat flanged area for (gluing) vacuum bagging if needed later...? Too many molds are made with too small flanges....:rolleyes:

[the1much]

ummmmm,,,,knutterz,,,,,he said the plug was done,,,,,,so why and how do you wet sand the mold before its there?,,,,,,,oh,,well,,,i see/saw, where you saw/see that
hehe :P

[overtimejunkie]

the difference for a mold you want to use 10 times compared to 1,000 times would be the difference between solid glass construction and a cored construction. example: a 1/2 inch solid would last say 10-20 parts and develop stress cracks in corners etc. from the hot-cold cycles. now a 1/2" glass plus 1/2" ply or other core plus another 1/2" glass you have a "rock" that will be 10 times stronger. The chopper gun could be used to alternate roving and save a buck or two. Thats just speaking from personal experience, having made some 12 or so molds in the last 6 years.

[AverageJoe]

I have done a little research on a paint for the mold,,,any thoughts. I know that it needs to be painted and wet sanded and painted and wet sanded and painted and wet sanded then waxed,,,,,,,,,,,is this right?

[the1much]

i was just asking because i guess ive never had the opportunity to make a mold that was only for a few uses,,,,,,all the ones ive made have always been solid core built to last for eons.,,, but then again most the molds i made were of boats not parts..
you shoot your gel coat on first joe,,,,,then lay-up your glass and everything,,,then pop it off the plug,,, then sand,, wet sand,,buff,,then your release agent ( i use to use the "frekote" system.) ,,,,thats the "quickie" of it. theres alot of little steps in between,,but them are the basics.

[the1much]

you like chop guns Over? ,,, we found them to be more messy,,more problems,,and in the end cost more to run,,,,,,,,man i wanted that venus to be my answer to hand-lay-up,,hehe :D

[overtimejunkie]

no i do not prefer chop. my experience mostly molds for boat hulls cabins etc. Currently in the shop were using the magnum venus internal mix gun, what a cake walk. most of the big parts, hulls and cabins we hand layup with 1 oz mat then 3610 or 2415 and some 1808 depending on application. on the molds we make the plug is made slicker than s**t and then waxed numerous times. then sprayed with tooling gel, usually I spray twice. say first black then green. the first color a different color than the gelcoat you will be applying to your parts, so you can tell of good coverage. cook composites and polymers supplys all the tooling in our factory.

[TeresaPay]

Call Scott Pay, he has 24 years experience, located in Ohio but may be able to work something out with shipping the part - 419-289-9739 or 419-651-3997. He owns a company - has a website www.kar-delplastics.com