Import/Export Issue

[floaturboat]

Greetings All,

I'm new to the boat design game but a long time sailor and ocean kayaker.

I've had a kayak design idea for years and recently decided to put it on "paper". I had started using google sketchup but it was soon obvious that I lack skills sufficient to produce my vision.

I started surfing around (no pun intended) and discovered Kayak Foundry from Blue Heron Kayaks. Extremely easy to use program for producing the sectional forms needed for wood strip construction. Within two hours I had my design roughed out and after a couple more hours, I'm about 90% there (see attached).

The problem is, KFoundry only exports 2d images as .png files, or the form templates as .txt files.

My question is, what's the best way to generate a 3D version and the required CNC files? (Without redesigning the entire thing in FreeShip, that is.)

I just installed FreeShip but haven't started using it yet. It seems to have the export functionality but I was hoping there might be a way to export at least the KFoundry form data to another program which would then generate the 3D image and desired file types.

While the paper templates KFoundry will produce are sufficient for wood strip construction, I would like to build this boat in composites so I need to create accurate plugs/molds.

Thanks for your time. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

CR

[kengrome]

There's a forum for Kayak Foundry:

http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/phpBB2/index.php

... but from everything I've learned there, it seems the biggest problem with KF is that it doesn't import anything -- and it only exports in the ways you've already discovered. So no matter how great the software may be on its own, it still has undesirable limitations, and it simply will not play nicely with any of the other very popular design programs available these days ... :(

I have hundreds if not thousands of FreeShip files, some of which I would like to import into KF so I could use the unique features of KF to refine the designs even further if necessary. Unfortunately this is impossible, I would have to start from scratch with every design, and I don't have the time. Besides, it's the computer that's supposed to be doing this kind of monotonous, time consuming work, not me!

The best thing I can suggest to you at this point in time is to finish your design in KF, then take screen shots of the three view of your design, and use them as background images in FreeShip. Then it is relatively easy to recreate your design in FreeShip so you can export the .dxf file you need for the CNC machine.

Personally I would do this only if I were going to have a foam plug of the boat carved by machine. If you want to do it the typical way by building the plug using molds on a strongback you don't have to bother with FreeShip anyways because KF already produces the drawings you'd need for the station molds ...

[Rick Willoughby]

You should be able to do something with the form text files.

If you post a few I will have a look.

As a complete aside you will find that Godzilla will yield a better hull design as it is based on accurate analytical modelling for narrow hulls. It also interfaces easily to Freeship. It only provides the underwater shape but very easily to extend the sides to get the preferred deckline.

Rick W.

[alidesigner]

I'm not a Rhino user but I think you can import the points from a text file, create a point cloud and probably generate surfaces from it. Download the free trial and give it a go.

[kengrome]

floaturboat,

There is a guy who developed a script that creates .dxf files from KF files. He charges $25 per conversion -- no big deal if you have only one design to convert I guess. This may be what you actually need. The guy's name is Scott and his website is KayakToCAD.com

------------------------

Rick,

The ability of KF to produce the station mold patterns and bow/stern stem patterns is missing in FreeShip, that's one reason I'm hoping to to massage my FreeShip data into the default .yak file format -- so I can have KF open my boats then create the station mold patterns for me.

Apparently the only files KF can open are its own proprietary .yak files which appear to be XML format or someting similar. The attached .dxf file is actually a .yak file with its suffix changed to make it uploadable in this forum, so please remember to change the suffix back to .yak after downloading it so you don't confuse it with a real .dxf file ... :)

The other attached file is a .txt file which has been exported from the same KF design. You can see that it clearly identifies the coordinates of each mold pattern to be produced or printed. The data points in this file may be related to the position of each mold on the virtual sheet of plywood in KF, but if the data points change after moving the molds around on the virtual plywood at least the mold shapes themselves should not change.

FreeShip can handle unlimited control points but someone in the KF forum suggested that more control points or stations would be a nice improvement to KF. This suggests that perhaps KF is pre-programmed with a limited number of station locations, which means any data coming from FreeShip would have to comply with this limitation.

It may also be that KF does not allow the longitudinal locations of its pre-programmed stations to be changed, and this may further compound the problem of converting exported data from FreeShip to KF's .yak file format.

[Rick Willoughby]

Ken
I had a look at the sample.txt file. It sort of makes sense but it would take a bit of work to make a transfer file that could cater for all possibilities.

The attached image is what was done easily using Excel. You can see there are some serious gaps.

I purchased Delftship for its ability to generate more file options. I have had a hull mould and a prop milled using Delftship igs files.

I usually have little difficulty getting the data into a useful form. The simplest way to plot stations is just to print the stations shown in the body plan to an accurate scale using powerpoint.

The long way is to actually draw bulkheads in the model and develop from these - one bulkhead per layer. The development function in Delftship has accurate scaling for plotting.

Rick W

[kengrome]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for looking at the files.

It looks like you tried to get KF's exported 'sample.txt' file into a format that can be imported into FreeShip. This is the opposite of my goal. I actually want to put my FreeShip data into KF, but KF cannot import anything so I need to create a .yak file from my exported FreeShip data ...

Even if one of the available FreeShip/DelftShip export formats will produce the required data points for a properly formatted .yak file, this exported data may also contain extraneous data points which would have to be eliminated before running a script to geterate the .yak file -- but how do we know which data points to keep and which to get rid of?

The simplest way to plot stations is just to print the stations shown in the body plan to an accurate scale using powerpoint.Are you suggesting PowerPoint only for scaling purposes, or because it imports FreeShip data directly, or ???

I'm always looking for a more efficient way to do things, but until now I have always performed the following steps to create my station molds for construction of a prototype:

1- Erase all the stations, buttocks and waterlines I used during the modeling phase in FreeShip.

2- Create new set of closely spaced buttocks and waterlines, let's say every 50mm for example. These lines will appear as a 50mm grid in FreeShip's bodyplan view.

3- Create one new station in the first longitudinal location where I want to install a form or mold on my building jig.

4- Take a screenshot of the bodyplan view showing the grid and the station mold outline, then print it out on a letter-sized sheet of paper.

5- Draw a 50mm grid on my plywood.

6- Manually reproduce the station profile shape by drawing freehand on my plywood so its outline intersects my plywood grid lines in the proper locations.

7- Repeat steps 3-6 for each station mold I feel like using on my building jig.

So far this has worked well for me. I seem to get very accurate results this way, so I have never bothered trying to print full-sized images and gluing them onto the plywood to produce a cutting pattern for my station molds. Then again, if your PowerPoint technique makes this task faster then maybe I should try it. Can you outline the procedure?

[Rick Willoughby]

Ken
Using powerpoint is very simple. My only issue is the size of printer. For my thin hulls the A4 printer does 1/2 stations OK.

To get the print of stations you simply set them at the required spacing in Delftship and take a screen shot of the full screen body plan with the control net turned off. If you want 50mm spacing then you might do it 1m (20 lines) at time so the image is not too cluttered.

I then take the image into powerpoint and scale to the right size. The attached shows 6 off 1/2 stations for my V11A hull. These are used for foam bulkheads in the mould.

Powerpoint prints accurately to scale and is on most computers.

You can use the paper as glue-on cutting template or just as means of marking the material being cut.

I find that waterlines are the fastest way to build a plug for a long hull. I use 25mm thick foan below the water to get good resolution and 50mm above. I have manually lofted these from Delftship offset file but they would require a lot of paper to print out.

Rick W