What

[inventing_man]

Greetings,
Heres an Idea .Being that the cost for everything has gone crazy ,It makes since for things to have more than one use.
Its using your duel sport motorcycle or ATV In a drive on and off configuration to power a pontoon boat . I opted for jet drives but it could be props. To turn the craft your front wheels sit in turn tables that cable control the nozzle or prop hub.
It can be self propelled to load and unload on a trailer, and drive to...and in the water.
I have a radio control model on the drawing board .
WHAT do you think?

[DanishBagger]

Fun idea, but it seems it would be more economical and efficient to use the small outboard on the pontoons instead of using the bigger engine of the ATV. Also, that way you'd even save some weight.

[inventing_man]

This is True . But not the only purpose for this vehicle . You can however power the WHAT with outboard and save the ATV gas for its land mission when you get ashore. This certainly is an option. And Options are WHAT is all about.
Suppose you want to explore or hunt that island, or remote sand bar ? Search and rescue . Aqua farming, This allows for 2 separate modes of transport on one system. The ATV or Bike is not altered to now be just a power plant , Its pull on , strap down and go . You use the the bikes drive tire to power the drive system in a Dyno chamber, hand grip throttle for power, the handle bar, to steer, have head lights to see at night, Horn and power to run electronics . You sit on the ATV and drive the boat just as you would drive the ATV or bike on the ground
When you get to your destination, you unstrap the bike pull off the WHAT, and are free to explore .

[DanishBagger]

You could do all of that with the outboard too.

Take al look at this:

http://www.clarkboats.com/pontoonwork.html

Another thing, without all that ATV-drive thingies, you'd be able to carry a bigger load on a smaller boat.

[inventing_man]

Yes that too.
But can any of those Drive themselves to the water? And Out of the water Anfib style ? The WHAT can . It can also load and unload itself ON LAND on a trailer . Or be towed with the ATV to the water without trailer. The WHAT can be used In normaly considered un accesable areas when using the typical truck, trailer, boat configurations to launch and recover.

[DanishBagger]

What do you mean your boat can drive itself on to land? The drawings aren't showing any such thing, as far as I can see.
If you mean that the ATV can go on to land, there are numerous small work boats that can carry something like an atv on the front and enable you to drive off onto land.
The unloading and loading onto trailers, how do you figure that? Because the ATV is "part" of the boat? If so, then most, if small enough, and able to carry an atv will be equally suited.

The boats I talk about are simple dinghies (and up to whatever size you want - some are akin to small ferries), with a flat front that will enable you to carry whatever you wont on the front. Many manufacturers make these boats - usually in aluminium (or aluminum, if you're american, of course).

I still think, that in it's current form, with the ATV-addons in order to drive the (very small) boat will reduce it's payload too much.

You then talk about it going on to land and what not, but whatabout the propellers for the ATV? How are they protected? Retractable? To me, making a boat that is able to be driven by the atv is making a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, plus you introduce a whole lot of problems in to work around the problems the "solution" creates.

Then there's the matter of using the thing as a search and rescue vessel. The center of gravity with you sitting on top of that thing, will make rescues in anything but very benign weather ridiculously unsafe, and since the propellers seems to fixed, it's much more difficult to get at the propellers.

Another thing, speaking of getting things fixed, how will you get at the drive train with the atv sitting there?
Spekaing of engine problems: Since your outboard is beneath the floors, how will you get it out when something goes wrong with the atv-drive a mile or more from land? How will you get under the atv and get at the outboard?

Another thing, regarding "search and rescue"? How will you carry people back? Have them sit on the atv lifting the CG even higher?

[inventing_man]

Thanks for the input DanishBagger
I think I see the problem here. These drawings are not to scale. These are word pitchers only, not "THE FINAL DESIGN" in any way, shape or form.
The gear boxes are in the pontoons, the ATV can be rolled forward enough to get the motor out, without upsetting balance. If using a bike you have plenty of room. The width will allow for stretchers on the pontoons each side, However radio for chopper to rescue and evac would be better for trauma victims dont you think, Victims in good health could ride back or be towed behind in a inflatable raft. "prefrerd'.
The "DYNO" chamber (2 heavy duty ,surfaced rollers on heavy duty piller block bearings , bullit proof) Has 2 PTO's via electric clutchs for enguaging the wheel drive or the water drive. A quick install / removal of drive tires . Mountings outside the pontoons. . Heres the deal here . The drive tires can be paddle tires. If there is a problem with jets or props, disengage the water drive via electric hand control, put the tires on (quick change) and engage the land drive and "paddle wheel " to safety.... that is if the outboard is broken too. Almost forgot, theres the trolling motor option too
I'm not building this to (solve problems) I'm building to extend the versitility of what I have . It would be fun to use and to build. But thats just me. :D

[DanishBagger]

Just a small thing: Yes, in some circumstances, a chopper is better. But go look up search and rescue vessels. There's a reason choppers aren't used always. And there are many times a chopper would be ridiculous or even impossible to use.

Even if it's not to scale, it still seems way too complex when you could have the same or better utility with a much less complex system.
When I speak of it looking like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, introducing problems that has to be worked around on its own, it has little to do with you not building it to "solve problems". On the other hand, if one doesn't think about what any given design or feature would accomplish and if there's a better, neater, simpler solution that might work better it's not even design, it's pure gadgetry. Even toys like jet skis have been "problem solved" in their design proces in order to get around problems instead of creating even more, just for the heck of it.
Further, I find you saying this would be good for search and rescue is indeed a "problem" where one has to ponder "what's the best way of getting around this?". Otherwise, you could just use an optimist dinghy for rescues on the high seas, or steam paddlers, for that matter.

Anyway, I guess we fundamentally disagree about this, but I have to say, if this is "just" to have a fun project, just to build "something", then it's perfectly fine, and I wish you luck with the project. :-)

[tinhorn]

Somebody will buy it.

I saw a boat hull with cutout for inserting a jet ski for power. Can't remember the name - there was one on eBay with a link to the manufacturer's site. Seems silly to me, but the company is in business.

Somebody who doesn't own a boat, but DOES own an ATV, might take a look at this if it was cheaper than a boat motor. Don't mortgage the house to fund the prototype, though.

[inventing_man]

Thanks!
Agreed, The thing with search and rescue , seldom is there a "right tool" because conditions can change so rapidly. I know first hand about this being a first responder. The only good defense, is a good offense meaning , more tools. In this regard, The WHAT could find a niche in the service industry. However, I am not looking to manufacture or sell as a product . If anything , I'll sell plans at a nominal fee for DIY -ers like me.
Mechanically speaking, only because I am a mech, Its really not that difficult or complex. Simple bevel gears for reduction and drive rotation correction. Basic DC electronics and metal fabrication. Everything needed I have found a source for off the shelf. Even for the RC model, which will in essence be a "problem solver" before the build
I believe SEA DOO made that adapt a boat concept

[yipster]

put some oversized well profiled wheels on your jeep and forget about the pontoons and outboard
even smaller wheels do the trick when you drive into the water fast enough, engine out is a sink than
amazing enough that type of lets say paddlewheel propulsion even beats same hp props and waterjets
more on this forum in the "modern paddlewheel" thread if i'm not mistaken

[inventing_man]

Monster trucks swimming . Mud bog racing. Some ATV.s will float too. WAY COOL!! And WAY LOUD!!! and I'm a BIG fan
But lets think about going fishing on our KLR 650 or Honda Foreman in this thread. Shhhhh. Dont spook the fish. :cool:
On the WHAT you have actually 7 modes of redundancy. 8 if you want to include the USCG required paddle. and 9 if you want to include a traction kite . You have 2 water drive units that can be separated if one becomes inop. leaving the other to drive. Same with the 2 paddle / drive tires . Thats makes 4 . Outboard motor.5 And trolling motor .6 Then the ATV or Bike itself after getting to shore. 7

[kengrome]

I've had a similar design for a several years, but for a 'multicab' pickup truck or van, not for an ATV. The rear wheels sit on rollers that transmit power to the propeller and the boat is steered by a traditional rudder and tiller.

The difference between my design and yours is that my boat is also a trailer, so after you've crossed the water you drive the mini-truck off the boat, hook the boat-trailer to the back of the truck, and away you go -- towing your boat-trailer behind you until you run into the next body of water to cross.

:)

[inventing_man]

Cool idea , Is the width sutable for hi way travel ?
Mine can tow as well , but just with an ATV pulling it . Its not made for highway speeds to keep it light.

[kengrome]

I haven't finished the design, but if I do the trailer-boat will definitely be strong enough for highway use. I'm in the Philippines and my idea for this contraption was to give local people a way to drive down to their local beach, back the trailer-boat to the water's edge, drive their multicab onto it, strap it down, then put it in gear and "drive across the ocean" to another island -- where they would beach the boat, drive the multicab off and attach the trailer-boat to the hitch again, and continue their journey on the new island.

Most of the larger islands here have paved highways and others have mostly dirt roads, but with 7000+ islands to explore this would be one really unique way to explore them. Just turn the trailer-boat into a camper at night by putting a popup tent on it (or even a hardtop) and you'd be able to motor via land or sea anywhere you want to go ... as long as the places you go have gas to buy so you don't get stuck somewhere without fuel!

:)

[inventing_man]

Our visions are one in the same, The WHAT is just smaller scale , and able to self propell as one unit ( with ATV or Motorcycle inplace) on land . Not fast, but functional enough to drive itself out of the water and on a land based trailer. It can also be loaded the typical trailer in the water boat pull on way .
I'm looking for an diecent performing 1/10 th scale RC 4 wheeler in which to scale a 1/10th WHAT from .

[tinhorn]

Radio Shack. Whenever I go into Radio Shack they always have something weird like that.

[Knut Sand]

Just me lurking around again.... Not to put anyone down, cos I really like the idea, as a fun project. But "what if" (genetic flaw, sorry); you at "full throttle" get a rope in the proppeller? are you then suddenly, airborne on an ATV, with rather limited operational capabilities in water (which then will occur in 0,8 sec's).

Oh I see, you have mentioned straps... So this can only occur if straps are not properly set/ skipped. Real cool way of landing though, unstrap just before you hit the shore, and zoom off. (What about a military version, catamaran, high speed version for landing?)

Cool idea :D

[rwatson]

Hey inventing man. I think the self launching, self propelling ideas has potential.
The closest production boat I can think of, to your concept is at
www.sealegs.com

I have been keeping an eye on amphibious boats over the years, but I still havnt found my ideal. My preference is for a real seagoing boat, with sails, that is self launching and self retrieving. Imagine getting to some great secluded place and being able to park on the beach out of the waves.

I think your idea has this potential in a bit more limited way. keep up the good work

[inventing_man]

Just me lurking around again.... Not to put anyone down, cos I really like the idea, as a fun project. But "what if" (genetic flaw, sorry); you at "full throttle" get a rope in the propeller? are you then suddenly, airborne on an ATV, with rather limited operational capabilities in water (which then will occur in 0,8 sec's).

Oh I see, you have mentioned straps... So this can only occur if straps are not properly set/ skipped. Real cool way of landing though, unstrap just before you hit the shore, and zoom off. (What about a military version, catamaran, high speed version for landing?)

Cool idea :D

Hey Thanks ! Interesting idea about speed launching .
I plan to use jet pumps instead of props just for safety . . But who knows what is lurking just below the surface . I'm sure a hazard for every form of boat AND drive exist down there . I've spent a few hours trying to get a trot line with metal leaders out of my prop before :rolleyes:
You wont be able to skip strapping down because that is what keeps the ATV drive tires FULLY planted and in place to the dyno drive chamber. Or the motorcycle standing upright and in contact.

[inventing_man]

Hey inventing man. I think the self launching, self propelling ideas has potential.
The closest production boat I can think of, to your concept is at
www.sealegs.com

I have been keeping an eye on amphibious boats over the years, but I still havnt found my ideal. My preference is for a real seagoing boat, with sails, that is self launching and self retrieving. Imagine getting to some great secluded place and being able to park on the beach out of the waves.

I think your idea has this potential in a bit more limited way. keep up the good work

Thanks for the link! Haven't seen that before. One small problem with it
Why only 10 minutes or 1km on land?
Because the Honda inboard engine and hydraulic transmission oil are air cooled, after 10 minutes of constant use it requires approximately 20 minutes to cool down before use again.



My drive line should let you crawl around as long as you want to go .

[rwatson]

Thanks for the link! Haven't seen that before. One small problem with it
My drive line should let you crawl around as long as you want to go .

You know, I have never seen that little "gotcha" before. It is a bit of a downer.

Mind you, with a standard non-marinised land machine, you would get a lot of rust and perhaps water in bad places too.

We need to solve a few problems yet, i guess

[inventing_man]

Yeah , water = extra maintenance no matter ....WHAT ..... (its kind of a universal word I guess :D ) Good seals , good grease and a design that allows easy service is about the only defense . I'm in a fresh water habitat here, Not too familiar with the Salt world other than it hosts very large , very hungry critters. :eek:
I'm looking at buying a (real) High performance 1/10th scale RC monster truck for the ATV platform. The "toy" versions are not very scale speed like or in handling. I can sneak a 4-6 channel airplane radio in it and be able to RC some other functions as well. Once I get the scale nailed down, I'll carve the entire WHAT out of foam install bulkheads and epoxy glass it
If the foam and glass works out, I may adapt it over to the full size prototype instead of using pontoons and frame structure. It will be more hydro plane -ish type hull than pontoon-ish